In Wide Passengers Don't Sit Well With Airlines, the Wall Street Journal discusses how various airlines deal with problems and complaints on both sides of the issue. Larger passengers feel discriminated against by being crammed into small seats or forced to buy two, and smaller passengers feel abused for having to share their seats with neighbors.
A few excerpts which outline what a few airlines are now doing:
United said it received 700 complaints last year from customers who had to "share their seats with their neighbor," said spokeswoman Robin Urbanski. With those complaints rising, the airline found eight other competitors had instituted "passenger of size" policies, and so United joined in.
If a passenger doesn't fit into the confines of his or her seat, United can force the oversized customer to leave the plane and wait for another flight with two empty seats side-by-side. If the traveler doesn't want to wait on the standby list for two empty seats, United will sell a second seat at the same ticket price the customer paid.
Southwest has had a similar policy since the 1980s. "Customers of size," in Southwest parlance, can book two seats online by repeating the passenger's name with XS as a middle name for the second seat. At check-in, the customer gets a boarding pass, a Reserved Seat document to block other passengers from the extra seat during open boarding and a form for a refund if the plane doesn't oversell and the airline doesn't bump passengers.
Some airlines require an extra seat for passengers who can't buckle up without a seat-belt extender, though most handle the issue on a case-by-case basis. Even when rules are strict, standards aren't uniformly enforced.
Frequent travelers and advocates for the obese would like to see airlines offer a few rows of wider coach seats and charge extra -- just as they do with rows of expanded legroom. "We're willing to pay for what we are rightfully using," says Peggy Howell, spokeswoman for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. Buying two seats is a bad solution because of safety issues with seatbelts and comfort issues with armrests that don't fully retract, she notes. Plus, most people don't need two full seats.
Some 34% of Americans now meet the criteria for obesity, Ms. Puhl says, and weight discrimination is prevalent. Obese workers face wage discrimination, for example, research has shown.
But frequent fliers say the issue is real estate, not discrimination. If they buy a seat, they want the whole seat. "If people are so large or overweight that they can't get the armrest down," Mr. Marston said, "then these people should be required to sit elsewhere, pay for an additional seat or pay me for the part of my seat they are spilling into."
I often feel bad for overweight people I observe in airlines, stuffed into small seats between two armrests boring into their sides. The seats are too narrow at 17 inches - a Harvard study of trains in the 50's (way before the obesity epidemic) found that 18 inches should be the minimum acceptable seat width, but later planes were designed with a cabin allowing only 17-inch wide coach seats because they needed a narrower body to give planes the speed and range to fly coast-to-coast.
So do we require airlines to widen seats (which on many planes would require eliminating an entire column of seats), at what would surely be an enormous cost? Or should they offer a few wider seads for those who need them? Or should overweight people simply be made to pay for two seats or avoid air travel altogether?
23 comments:
the correct answer is the airlines should be able to enforce whatever rules they please seeing as they are still private companies. We, as tax-paying citizens as well as consumers, can only hope profit-motives are the drivers behind their decision making.
Personally, I'm a fan of the "a few bigger seats with more expensive ticket prices" idea. But then you run into the dilemma of the fat person who doesn't want to pay the higher price. How do you decide when the person is too fat for the standard coach seat and requires one of the fat-person-coach seats? Should there be a scale at ticketing? Maybe a hole in the wall shaped like a "normal" sized person that passengers with standard coach tickets must be able to pass through in order to be eligible...
But it all comes back to...I don't care what policy is implemented by the private businesses. If the wrong policy is implemented, the feedback will come in the form of decreased revenue.
I vote a few rows of wider seats. And if it were important to me, I would "vote" with my money by supporting the airlines who implement such a policy. We don't need regulation; the airlines will sort it out on their own.
As far as how to tell who "qualifies" - if a person can't put the armrests down on either side of them, they obviously need a wider seat.
They should absolutely have to pay for 2 seats. I work for an aerospace company and I can tell you that it would cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions (per airline company) to retrofit older planes with even 1 row of wider seats. Adding a fat row to new planes wouldn't be much of a financial burden to Airlines, but who's to say that an average person can't buy a wide seat?
Bottom line is, and this is extremely harsh, it's your fault your fat, if you have to buy an entire row, then deal with it or hit the gym. We don't need more regulation, especially in favor of obesity.
If planes add a wider seat, then they should be able to charge more for it. Then again, they would have skinny people buying these seats at a premium : )
Oh that's just mean to make them us "XS" as an indicator of obesity. Or maybe only my brain went straight to sizes on that.
I agree with Tom I came on to comment on the "I often feel bad for overweight people I observe in airlines" remark only to start that you shouldn't. The vast majority of fat people are that way of their own doing. Very few are that way due to a medical condition.
Being in a wheelchair is an un-curable condition where we should make certain accessible options available to help people with everyday tasks that we all take for granted. Being fat is pure lack of will and laziness, and should be treated as such; with disregard. Want to fit in a seat? Put down the twinkie.
what happens when a bunch of small people want to buy the extra seat just to be more comfortable? we're back at square 1.
Oh my god!
"Peggy Howell, spokeswoman for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance"?!?!?!
I'm tempted to start the opposite organization....The National Association to Advance Ridicule of The Fat and Lazy.
With the exception of less than 1% of the population that have a genetic disorder, everyone who is fat did it to themselves. Here's an idea, take the fork out of your mouth and get off your A$$! The fact that these "acceptance" organizations exist in our society makes me sick. We should all teach our kids to point at fat people and laugh at them and MAYBE they might be motivated enough to lose the weight and stop increasing the medical insurance costs for the rest of us.
Thanks for letting me rant :)
Very good points about wider seats being a moot point because then non-obese people would have access and be able (and very willing I'd imagine) to pay a premium for them.
In general I agree that people are fat because of their own decisions, but the solution obviously isn't as simply as "put down the twinkie." I would bet that the vast majority of fat people - just like the vast majority of "normal weight" people - wish they were thinner.
If it were easy, nobody would be fat- just like nobody would be poor or in credit card debt (we all know it's not as simple as "put down the credit card!" and bam, you're rich).
Even a very determined fat person on the best diet and exercise program can take years to lose the hundreds of pounds often necessary. So in the meantime all of society has to deal with the third that are putting crazy undue burdens on companies. They've already tripled the size of coffins, bathtubs, showers, doorways, and a hundred other things over the last few decades. My guess is that trend will have to continue - hopefully, as Optimus Prime suggests, slowly and as the market demands, not as the government or the "Association for the acceptance of fat people" demands.
Sure, there's the "they're all fat because they're lazy and sit around eating garbage and watch TV instead of exercising"
Here's another explanation:
http://www.violentacres.com/archives/80/americans-arent-fat-because-they-lack-willpower-theyre-fat-because-theyre-broke
I think it makes sense. It is very cheap eating from the dollar menu. I think time is an important factor as well. I could afford to eat right, and maybe have a couple sessions with a trainer each week if I cut some things in my budget. The problem for me is having the time after work to go to the gym for 2-3 hours, and the time to cook a decent, healthy meal, and still have time to do the other things I need/want to do before I have to go to bed so I can get enough sleep for work the next day.
That being said, yeah, fat people should have to pay extra, extra-wide seats should be available at an extra cost, but should only be available to fat people, unless the flight's fully booked.
How come nobody pointed out the fact that 90% of the planes already have wider seats available to everyone? Yeah, they come with a price premium, but you also get to sit in the front of the plane and drink free drinks :) They even hand you a warm towel to wipe off your fat sweaty face.
Also, are people really fat because they're broke? I think it's because loosing weight is incredibly similar to financial success. It takes hard work and discipline to make and save money. It also takes hard work and discipline to manage your weight. It's all about identifying priorities and taking control of your life!
glad to see some opposition to the "fat people are fat because they are lazy" camp.
That's just simply not the case for 100% of fat people, and to speak in such hyperbole only weakens the validity of your argument.
this is not something that requires policy to settle. if "enough" people complain about having to share their seat with their neighbor's fat roll, then an airline would have already come up with a solution.
Profits Profits Profits. Apparently it is not yet profitable enough for airlines to make such adjustments.
I don't really care why you're fat or why you're wearing a huge hat or why you can't control your kid. It doesn't go in MY seat.
I was stuck next to a true fattie London to JFK and it was the worst flight of my life. His arm repeatedly flailed into my chest because, well, there was nowhere else to go.
I'm never flying like that again. I don't even care what the airline policy is, I'm just not doing it. I'd rather get myself bumped even. It's not worth it.
@Meg-
"Even a very determined fat person on the best diet and exercise program can take years to lose the hundreds of pounds often necessary"
Very true, but they became fat due to their own decisions and habits. They definitely wish they were thinner, but the vast majority of fat people do nothing about it.
@Diasdiem,
Exercise is 100% free. Groceries are cheap. Fat people are lazy. They don't want to cook, they don't want to exercise. They'd rather sit on the couch and eat McDonalds because it's less work.
I have little patience for fat people because weight is something you have complete control over. Yes, genetics have some effect, but it mostly comes down to your own choices. I can't wait for the day that health insurance companies start charging obese people extra.
Well there are wider seats called "business class". The airlines weigh luggage and charge etc if it is excessively overweight. Obviously they think not insulting fat people is worth the hassle....
Wow, what's with all the fat hate? I've never gotten out of the range of a normal BMI, but it's easy to let life get in the way. I don't naturally enjoy any form of exercise so sometimes it's hard to motivate myself.
That said, I do think it's fair to charge larger people for the additional seating if they can't fit into one. Chad is a little to big for most seats (he's also 6'2"), but we always sit next to each other so it evens out!
@paranoidasteroid,
What if you did get way out of your BMI range? Would you complain about it or do something about it?
We're not talking the 'few extra pounds' people, they fit in most seats fine. We're talking, in an average muscled person, that their BMI is probably 35+ . . . so 300lbs at 6'0" of mostly fat.
Obviously it's hard to put specifics on it, because you can be 6'2" and be 250lbs of muscle, but since muscle is far heavier in the same size, they probably don't overflow here anyway.
There is a huge difference between:
http://home.comcast.net/~enbom/joel10406-1.jpg
and
http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/b/bigvito/12.jpg
Sorry Joel, and congrats on your losing weight.
I'm 6' 3" and 240lbs. I should be nearer 200lbs. Most people won't even notice I'm fat though unless they look closely if I dress well. Ordinary economy airline seats are perfectly fine for me, if I'm careful with where I put my elbows. Or short flights up to a few hours they're not even uncomfortable if I take my shoes off and extend my legs deep under the seat in front of me. On intercontinental flights they do get uncomfortable and I do need to get up and walk around a bit and stretch. I've flown business class 2-3 times and it is really worth it for the intercontinental flights if you can get upgraded or have the money. Exit rows are good though. On my first flight to Australia there were two other big guys like me sitting next to me and that was uncomfortable as well had to be careful not to move too much...
So the people Meg is talking about have to be very seriously obese I think.
@ Tom: I tend to revert to disordered eating when my weight creeps up, so it's probably not a fair question.
With the sedentary nature & long hours of jobs today, it would be difficult for someone to motivate themselves to do something they don't enjoy, especially if it cut into the few remaining hours of free time left to them.
By the way, I'm in the aero industrusty too! I work for the company that sounds like a bouncing, except of the space side.
Anon - eXtra Seat not eXtra small. :) I agree, they could have picked something better though.
@paranoidasteroid,
Nice. I was sick for a few weeks and stopped eating and lost 10lbs... I'm now a believer.
Awesome... we do work for the same bouncing company, I'm in the BMA division in the midwest.
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